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28 Threads found on fr4 Loss Tangent
fr4 is very lossy (high loss tangent), your antenna will be very inefficient with fr4.
Dear Kapil, I think for normal PCB, use fr4 is good. But for the Analog ,Digital ,High speed design and RF design , it is better you use Rogers, Taconic,Arlon. And some time even BT material from MITSUBISHI is essential. Hope this is useful for you. Best Regards Leo Chou Account Manager in Founding Circuits Company
Hi all, I have a problem with modeling of SIW cavity resonator in HFSS. Expected frequency of the 1st resonant mode ~ 5GHz, substrate material - "clone" of standard fr4 (permittivity and loss tangent changed). After calculation result looks well (real part of complex frequency close enough to 5GHz), but I accidentally notice that Q has (...)
i m using fr4 loss free with a dielectric of 4.3 substrate.
best way is stripline transformer using copper and appropriate substrate with low loss tangent such as Getek fr4 or Rogers teflon.
fr4 is a lossy substrate. Try a simulation with a "HF-substrate", for example a rogers. Then the gain should increase. Another thingis the groundplane, is it large enough? Do you have a MIMO antenna that has multiple beams? Then you should have multiple antenna ports or a feeding structure.
Hi all, I simulated one UHF patch antenna with fr4 sub and found the much impact of the loss tangent. When loss tangent is 0.02, the Gain is only 1.2dBi,efficiency is only 28% .When i changed the loss tangent to 0.002, the Gain is 5.8dBi and the efficiency is 80%. My (...)
Do not use std fr4 .. Know what your loss tangent and epsilon with test coupons and make sure tolerance on heli-coil is tested. Impedance matching stripline is basic with many tools online incl. IPC I suspect loss tangent of dielectric will kill the Q of your antenna unless Df<< 0.005 Also if planning to (...)
I suggest you use GE fr4 called GETEK which has 10x lower loss tangent than most fr4. W I suspect you are using lossy fr4 and also dielectric constants is much lower at 2Ghz since rated parameter . Also dielectric constant drops 10~20% as f goes up. Return loss of thinner (...)
but gain is not coming to 8db Have you simulated with loss tangent for the fr4 substrate? fr4 has high loss tangent and this will reduce the gain of patch antennas. To check if gain is reduced by substrate loss, you could simulate with lossless substrate.
Beware that there are many different suppliers, which are interchanged by the PCB manufacturers frequently for cost reduction. Ans all have different dielectric constant and loss tangent. So in short you can only use fr4 in case you can live with these larger variations by taking it into account during the design phase.
To design the 50 ohms transmission lines at the input and output of the module you can use the freeware program below: fr4 fiberglass, Er=4.4, should be fine for your application.
Hello, Try to reduce the loss tangent of the fr4 material, this should increase the resistance at resonance. 800 MHz (375mm = lambda) and 1.6mm between patch and ground will not give you a good antenna, unless you have another patch above it. If there would be no loss, the impedance should be in the many kOhm range. (...)
certainly fr4 would be quite lossy at 10 GHz. but as kohi noted, what is the performance parameter that isnt satisfactory? if you end up needing a material wither lower loss tangent then as suggested look at a teflon based material. if you identify a material work with your department at school to secure you a free sheet (...)
hi there i am simulating a microstrip power divider and in order to have good match between fabricated and simulated results i thought to include dielectric loss and metal loss. i am simulating with fr4 substrate havng loss tangent of 0.022 and instead of using PEC i am using copper. after simulating i (...)
Some years ago, we measured some fr4 material for a 0.9-2.1GHz power splitter application. For our material, the extracted epsr was 4.7 (!) and the loss tangent was 0.027 at 2GHz.
Hi, Can anyone illustrate the extraction method to have the real,imaginary parts of effective permittivity and permeability by simulating a 10 mm long of a 50Ω microstrip line on fr4-Epoxy with thickness of 1.6 mm ε relative=4.4 and loss tangent=0.022;by using HFSS and Matlab. Take a look to my project done by HFSS,the (...)
silicon's loss mechanism is not same as dielectric loss. For fr4 material, the DC conductance is zero while AC electrical field will incur loss. Silicon's conductance in DC is not zero. And that means the loss mainly come from the conductivity of the material.
fr4 is not just one kind of dielectric. You need to find out what brand and model of fr4 is going to be used. You can then go to that manufacturers web site and download the datasheet which will give you the loss tangent and Er.
Hi , I am not able to attched the hfss format so I attached the diagram in doc format. Could you advice me how to attached the hfss file to you? I have done the patch antenna using ansoft hfss v9.1 . The material that I want to use is fr4 and wanted to design for 1.5GHz. I'm getting 1.5dB in peak gain through compute antenna parameters icon.
dear all. when i simulate the cpw antenn with fr4 substrate the gain is not uniform over the band of frequencies. what might be the reason? how to correct it? also i need what is gain bandwidth? impedance bandwidth? pattern bandwidth? also what is the permittivity of fr4 with loss (...)
Diel const of fr4 can vary from 4.3-4.8 from batch to batch. And is temperature sensitive as well. loss tangent can vary between 0.018-0.030, depending on number of layers, board thickness, etc. Using fr4 as substrate for microwave filters, requires accurate tolerance analyses of the fr4 parameters in a (...)
Dear all, I have questions about the laminate materials for RF circuits/antennas. I know that the cheapest material is fr4. However, its loss tangent Df is very high (@0.018). Are there any other materials with low cost and low loss tangent? Roger series are more expensive than I expected. Thanks,
fr4 loss tangent is 0,012 - 0,019
PCB is not visible. Try to post once again. If substrate is fr4 (as it seems...) increase to 0.02 the loss tangent (more similar to real value) and see if it oscillates. Use, instead of ideal passive components, vendor library component models (Q and SRF can be important). I hope it can help. Mazz
Definitely the reason of poor S21 at those frequencies is the fr4 material. For higher frequencies you can use one of these materials from Rogers: Curves lines usually are used in broadband splitters to minimize the total physical length.
Diel Const of fr4 can vary from 4.3-4.8 from batch to batch. And is temperature sensitive as well. loss tangent can vary between 0.018-0.030, depending on number of layers, board thickness, etc. Using fr4 as substrate for microwave circuits, requires tolerance analyses of the fr4 parameters in a (...)
fr4 is not a good material to use at 1 GHz. Use high frequency materials that has a more stable dielectric constant with less loss.